Home

Previous Entry | Next Entry

Regardless of Evidence

  • Jan. 8th, 2009 at 1:09 PM
superman cross
As part of a debating session yesterday during a I asked the class to discuss whether or not they believed in 'The Big Bang'. At the start of the class I asked everyone who believed in the theory to put their hands up and only 3 out of 15 did. The class then spent the next hour watching an Horizon program about the evidence for 'The Big Bang' and how developed as a theory. After they had watched the program and we had discussed it as a group I asked the students again who now believed in the theory and who didn't. Only the Muslim students still disagreed on it. When other students asked them why they disagreed they said it was because of their religion (which everyone agreed was fair enough). But it made me realise, even when presented with overwhelming evidence gathered through actual observations, some people just do not have the capacity to overcome the ignorance demanded by their faith.
  • Music:The Number of the Beast - Iron Maiden

Tags:

Comments

( Leave a comment )
[info]dan_g wrote:
Jan. 8th, 2009 02:15 pm (UTC)
Interesting.

I think that equally there is an arguement here that belief is transitional, and that the kids may only have been swayed by the TV program... Problem is that to test this theory you need to present them with a similar type TV program that tries to proove a falsehood.

And then at the end of that program to ask if the kids believe that too...

(OK, well it would be superbad to argue for creationism, so you would have to go for something political...)
| Reply | Thread
[info]ockhamsadvocate wrote:
Jan. 8th, 2009 02:27 pm (UTC)
Good point there Dan. Initially the point of the session was just to get students to practice having simple informal discussions about a subject they are unfamiliar with. A religious discussion was never the objective of the class. The whole religious thing just sort of happened by itself. What surprised me was that the Christian and Sikh students all kind of accepted that it could have happened, but still found room for their own beliefs. It was only the Muslim students that refused to allow any compromise regardless of the evidence.

Edited at 2009-01-08 02:34 pm (UTC)
| Reply | Parent | Thread
[info]saqib09 wrote:
Jan. 8th, 2009 02:39 pm (UTC)
There is absolutely nothing in the Quran and the Sunnah that requires anyone to disbelieve or reject the big bang theory. If the Muslim people in you have mentioned think otherwise it is their own opinion and they can not legitimately base that on Islam. But I agree with you. Some people will go to any length to defend their religion and will just refuse to see reason. I have met many Muslims myself who do that.

However, as ironic as it may sound the Quran actually talks about the big bang. "Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (The Noble Quran, 21:30)" This is not a joke. This is a universally agreed fact that the Quran has been exactly preserved. So the Quran we have today is the exact copy of the first one, which was revealed 1,400 years ago.

Anyway, the Quran has 6666 verses (arguably though). Funny in light of what song you are listening to. :) \m/
| Reply | Thread
[info]ockhamsadvocate wrote:
Jan. 8th, 2009 03:32 pm (UTC)
A simple, but serious mistake to make.
the Quran has 6666 verses
*Chuckle at the irony*

The verse of the Quran you speak of does not actually speak of the big bang. If this statement was true divine inspiration about the Big Bang then it is a very confused statement.

a) This verse is clearly a description of Allah’s creation of the planet Earth and the heavens above it, NOT a description of the creation of the universe as understood by modern science.

b)The idea that the heavens and earth were once joined and then separated by the activity of Gods and Goddesses was actually quite common among pagans of the Middle East. Among the Egyptians for example, it was the involuntary separation of Geb (the earth god) from his wife and sister Nut (the sky goddess) that was responsible for the division of the earth from the sky. The Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh likewise describes the moment “when the heavens had been separated from the earth, when the earth had been delimited from the heavens” as a result of the separation of a sky God (An) from a earth Goddess (Ki). If you remove the pagan references, you have the same story as found in the Qur’an.
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/huxley/islam_big_bang.htm


Edited at 2009-01-08 03:32 pm (UTC)
| Reply | Parent | Thread
[info]saqib09 wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2009 10:58 pm (UTC)
Re: A simple, but serious mistake to make.
I did not expect you to be impressed on the basis of a verse from the Quran. Its only natural that this will not answer every question. But you are an intelligent man. You have, it seems, done a good deal of research. But I think if you study more extensively you'll find that Islam makes more sense to you than it does now.

About the Egyptian thing, I did read about these stuff, but my knowledge is limited on that topic.

cheers
| Reply | Parent | Thread
[info]ockhamsadvocate wrote:
Jan. 12th, 2009 09:25 am (UTC)
Re: A simple, but serious mistake to make.
The problem is that the verse you quoted did not even answer the question you posted it as an answer to.
| Reply | Parent | Thread
[info]eastertheatre wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2009 04:10 am (UTC)
Isn't it true that Islam accepts all three holy books as the word of God? So, couldn't fundamentalist Muslims legitimately claim that the world was literally created in 6 days according to their religion, like many fundamentalist Christians do?
| Reply | Parent | Thread
[info]saqib09 wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2009 11:11 pm (UTC)
Islam acknowledges that people to whom those books were revealed were actually messengers of god. However, all historical evidence seem to suggest that none of those scriptures can be found in their original forms today. This is something the Quran put emphasis on and Allah says that the Quran is the last and complete guidance for mankind and it will be preserved exactly the way it was revealed. Theoretically if it can be shown that Bible and other scriptures we have today are not distorted and contains exactly the same message with which they were revealed then yes, they should be considered as words of the same god who revealed the Quran. But thats the whole point anyway. The Quran came to complete them and those books are no longer needed. The Quran upholds the basic teachings of those books and further guidance for whole humanity.
| Reply | Parent | Thread
[info]eastertheatre wrote:
Jan. 10th, 2009 03:58 am (UTC)
Very interesting -- thank you for clarifying my understanding :)
| Reply | Parent | Thread
[info]dan_g wrote:
Jan. 8th, 2009 04:28 pm (UTC)
On another note... I have never been able to see Why Science and Creationism cannot mix...

Scientist. "The Earth is, to the best we can measure, 4.54 billion years old."
Religion. "And in the eyes of God this took 7 days. Time for gods is as relative as your own theory of relativity..."

Scientist. "life evolved and adapted to its surroundings..."
Religion. "We agree, God created all life, and it was in this light that the species evolved as they did..."

blah, blah, blah...

Of course, as I am neither religious nor a scientist (got no 'ologies'), its easy for me to accept compromise. ;P

| Reply | Thread
[info]ockhamsadvocate wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2009 08:12 am (UTC)
Totally agree with you Dan. I think that's probably why the Christian students had a better time accepting the Big Bang Theory then the Muslim ones.
| Reply | Parent | Thread
[info]eastertheatre wrote:
Jan. 8th, 2009 07:01 pm (UTC)
Sadly, it's not just religious beliefs that cause people to ignore evidence that is directly in front of their faces. There is a veritable rainbow of strongly-held beliefs that are held as a matter of faith by people who have no interest in the actual truth. They just want to be right.
| Reply | Thread
( Leave a comment )